This is a press release from the owners of Ploughboy Inc.
Dave Nelson, owner of Ploughboy, Inc., has announced his business will close sometime in March. We’re really disappointed at the thought of closing,” said Dave. “We’ve had such a positive reception from this community and found, almost to our surprise, that our business concept had wings. But there isn’t a truly viable business environment here. Strangely, that’s not due primarily to government regulation or taxes or any of the things you’d think of, but rather to the fact that the other businesses we needed to operate, like banking, computer support, legal and the like performed at such a low level we just couldn’t get done what we need to.”
Ploughboy opened last summer with the idea of doing business only with local producers of food and food products. The idea was to use this community’s own money to fuel the revenue side of local ranching, farming and other small food operations. The floor of the market has been active and interesting, but the basics business operation has proved difficult. Banking was enormously problematic. Collegiate Peaks’ online banking system ceased to function properly at the beginning of October about the time they did a big system upgrade. No amount of phone calls, emails and in-person visits could prompt them to go out and analyze what the problem is. “I could expect as much service from the mason jar of 20s buried out in my back yard.” said Dave. The level of business service at other banks turned out to be equally as low. In-branch staff lacked any real knowledge about the specifics of their institution’s electronic banking system and when asked to find out the answers to specific commercial banking questions, they failed to eve respond. Ploughboy, a retail business with dozens to hundreds of banking transactions a month, found that Salida just did not offer workable banking.
Other business support systems also proved dysfunctional. One computer tech company first ordered wrong parts, then failed to properly install programs, then complained about having to bear the cost of shipping back the parts they had mis-ordered. The work was subsequently done in Denver without a hitch. Other firms have been better, but not sufficient for Ploughboy to feel confident it can operate without significant disruption. Ploughboy was also unable to find a local insurance agent with sufficient knowledge of his/her products to design a comprehensive and cost-effective policy. One was obtained through a Denver agent with little trouble. Other types of support businesses that have also been problematic include accounting and legal. In addition, dealing with the City’s public works and building departments has been nothing short of a misguided comedy of errors, misrepresentations of code and arbitrary enforcement of such.
Some say that the lack of adequate infrastructure and technological advancement is intrinsic to small mountain towns and would place blame solely on those in government and public office. However, Ploughboy found it’s impediments to stem more from a lack of professionalism and diligence in the private sector. Few business people bothered to return calls or emails in a timely fashion. Staff repeatedly failed to follow through. Businesses were sometimes closed during posted hours. Few people seemed motivated to do the actual work it takes to earn someone’s business. — Just this past week Ploughboy asked a computer firm in town if it could install some programs and synch the company’s computer files. The tech person told them to go home and do it themselves.
“We’re kind of old-school capitalists.” Notes Kerry. “We’ve always believed in the power of the private sector – the fact that there’s always someone working to get your business or to keep it churns the wheels of greatness. But the parts of the private sector we’ve had to rely on here just don’t seem motivated. We understand that it’s a mountain town where people want a balance between work and personal life. But, some people set the standard for their own work-related performance so low that the business end of the equation just fails.”
While Ploughboy is soon to close its doors, Dave considers it a success story in many ways. The education he’s acquired and knowledge he’s shared with the community, sourcing from dozens of local ranchers, farmers and other food producers, making great inroads with the problem of distribution, which to date has been regarded as the biggest stumbling block for such a venture, garnering community support for this concept and for local growers all turned out to have exceeded his expectations. Those things were all “relatively easy,” says Dave. “We simply don’t have the patience and wherewithal to deal with the shortcomings of basic business support mechanisms here — starting with the City of Salida and including banking, accounting, insurance, computers and other things.”
Dave is hopeful that as time goes on some of these basic businesses services will improve in quality. “The question is, how many businesses will come and go in the interim?” wonders Dave. “I’ve been told by more than one customer at the market that too many good things have come and gone in Salida. This town is great in many ways and it has the potential to be a great place to do business, but it will take some change for it to get to that point.”
Ploughboy is projecting closure in approximately a month and will host a variety of sales along the way. It will be throwing a customer appreciation party in March, as well, to thank the community for its great support. (Watch the Ploughboy Facebook page for details.)
Gee Dave,
You hit it right on the head “Lack of professionalism and diligence in the private sector. Staff repeatedly failed to follow through. Businesses were sometimes closed during posted hours. Few people seemed motivated to do the actual work it takes to earn someone’s business”.
“In addition, dealing with the City’s public works and building departments has been nothing short of a misguided comedy of errors, misrepresentations ………”
“Many good things have come and gone in Salida. This town is great in many ways and it has the ‘potential’ to be a great place to do business”
“Work was subsequently done in Denver without a hitch.”
See ya in Denver.
M. Brown
You crying baby. You blame everybody else because you could not make a business work. Maybe if you learned a hard work ethic you could be successful like the hundreds of other businesses is Salida.
Disappointing… such a great concept to “keep it local”. Thanks for trying.
It is indeed a shame that Ploughboy will close. Equally unfortunate is the finger-pointing in this press release. We wish Dave and Kerry well in their next venture, wherever it may be.
I don’t know what to make of this letter. It says that your business is successful. It says that you like the people and community of Salida. Yet, the inability to find ‘adequate’ business services is forcing you to close your business? That sounds absurd. Blaming others for your problems sounds a lot like victimization and seems to state that the reason for failure is on the shoulders of the community, a community which you also seem to embrace.
Sure, Salida is a bit different in terms of the business climate. It is a tough town to make a living in. It is an even tougher town to run a business. My wife and I have operated our own businesses since moving here, ten years ago. Sometimes, it was good, sometimes it proved impossible. Being realists, we accept it for what it is. The community is not to blame for any shortfalls that we, or our business model may have encountered.
There may be individuals here who choose to not operate as professionals. They may choose to do so to pursue a more free lifestyle. They may do so because they are simply inept. These type of individuals are ubiquitous, even in Denver. Regardless, the blame for their lack of professionalism is their own. If I don’t like the way someone operates, I move on and find someone who can handle the task. Although I strive to ‘buy local’, I am sometimes forced to source materials, or even labor from the Front Range. That does not taint the purity of my desire to support the local community.
As far as government bureaucracy goes, I’m afraid it is omnipresent. I too have had instances where I felt like local government officials have been somewhat unprofessional, even unreasonable. I have also had the same occur with giant business monopolies. It is simply the nature of the beast.
Many people have sacrificed a great deal to live in the Salida and the surrounding area. They give up conveniences. They give up monetary gain. They give up these things by choice. The trade off is a different lifestyle, one free from traffic, smog and crime. Most who move here realize these trade offs coming in.
Our family could certainly realize more financial reward living in a larger city. We could have many more options to choose from when it comes to who we do business with. I have often struggled to find competent help since arriving. But frankly, it would not be worth it, not even close. I’ll gladly take a few inconveniences, in exchange for the incredible way of life available here.
And if you call me at 9:00 am on a powder day… I’m sorry, I won’t be available until after lunch. But rest assured, that your job will be done as promised, on time and under budget. It might require me to work late at night, or on the weekend. But it will get done. If not, I loose my ability to live the lifestyle I love and still feed my family. That’s a sacrifice I’m not willing to make.
Well stated, Joe.
Ditto – I share this perspective.
Nailed it. Thank you.
Sorry to see you close.
It is true that there are many tradeoffs for living in the Salida area and most of us our willing to make them. However, there is a need for a mimimum amount of professionalism like returning phone calls and showing up.
Extremely bummed to hear this! We went out of our way to patronize this place and it was well worth it. Our food tasted better.
I too have experienced numerous shortcomings in all the aforementioned business sectors, including times when a consultant just didn’t show up. But I was always able to put the word on the street, and before long I’d have a friend of a friend refer someone who knew what they were doing.
I’m sure I do not have all the facts, and I sincerely hope this is more of a ‘cry for help’ than a successful ‘suicide’. I hope the Ploughboy will reconsider!
The place where I live (location) has always taken precedence over my paycheck. I could literally make five times what I make if I lived in L.A. or NYC or even Denver. Problem is, I’d have to live in L.A., NYC or Denver. For me, the income discrepancy is evened out by the $1,000,000 views I get several times a day, or the proximity of incredible hiking, boating, cycling or skiing that exists in every direction, not to mention the great people. While I’m sure the owners have taken all this into consideration, I can’t help but think there’s gotta be a way around what seems to be insurmountable…
Yeah, Scott, but at least in New York you could go to Kossar’s and get those great bialys.
Ha! True, except for the fact that I’m trying to stay away from bleached white flower…in favor of more homegrown veggies.
Thanks to whoever edited my above entry. I tried to figure out how to do that but was unsuccessful…how does one make a correction after posting? Thanks.
This is undoubtedly a big loss to our community, but I feel there must be more to the story. I hope the owners reconsider.
When my students are frustrated or encounter obstacles, I advise them, “Try another way!” Please try another way Ploughboy! Salida wants to embrace you! It’s worth the effort.
Dave and Kerry have put a lot of energy into starting Ploughboy, and I am saddened to hear that they are closing. Our community is unique in their ability to put spend money on products and services that support a more sustainable way of living on this earth. We have embraced local agriculture by purchasing products at businesses that support local agriculture, such as Neighborhood Natural Goods, Sunshine Market, Simple Foods, and Ploughboy. Our community will continue to spend hard earned money on local products grown and crafted with integrity because we are commitmented to the “chosen lifestyle” of living in Chaffee County. I wish Dave and Kerry the best in their transition. Thanks for the inspiration and great food.
Ouch .
Hey all – We have really loved so much of our experience here, including the substantive part of our business: the customers, the producers, figuring out the market, pricing things so they’re within the reach of average shoppers, finding out the quality of the products this area turns out is better than we ever expected. And, we’re not letting folks know about the negative parts of our experience trying to do business here because we want something out of it. We’re putting it out there because sooooo many other folks who are trying to do things in this town have had similar experiences yet there is no move afoot to improve these widely acknowledged shortcomings.
It’s amazing that almost every person we tell of our difficulties instantly understands. The lack of professionalism is universally acknowledged. There’s a standard chant, “Oh yeah, that’s just Salida!” Worse yet, every second person or so tells us they would never do banking here, they do it in Denver, they don’t have their business insurance here, they have it in Denver, etc. How much of a financial loss is that to this community every day?
There are many parts of the business community here who are doing a great job: the tellers at our bank, lots of folks in the retail trade, and others. Joe Judd, who in commenting on this post points out that he can have a great quality of life and yet meet his business commitments, has absolutely got it dialed in. But, being honest and open about those parts of the business community that really need improvement isn’t whining, it’s how things are supposed to work: let the entity you’re doing business with know of any issues or shortcomings and give that business a chance to correct/improve. If they don’t, vote with your dollars – and be clear about what you’re doing and why. That’s capitalism at work. Those parts of the business community here that need improvement are unlikely to make progress as long as these significant shortcomings remain a widely acknowledged, but never addressed, secret.
On the topic of the ad hominem attack by Joe (no last name): Kerry’s response is: I’ve got to say, we readily acknowledge we have lots of shortcomings, but lack of work ethic isn’t among them. We started out in life so dirt poor that we jumped in dumpsters and threw out cardboard and aluminum cans to eat every day. Like lots of other Americans we pushed forward without government handouts or trustfunds or anything of the sort. We went on to earn multiple higher degrees, work for some of the brightest and best firms in the country, start interesting and creative businesses, help to reclaim innercity neighborhoods through our own capitalistic ventures and make some money along the way. When you write that down it actually sounds more impressive than it is. (Believe me.) But, I’ll admit it sure surprised me. We’ve gotten further in life than either one of us ever expected. And while it has taken a bunch of hard work (many of our years have been about working 60, 80 and 100 hour week after week after week) and a fair bit of what others might consider sacrifice (we don’t even own our own home because we want to use our capital to try interesting ventures) what it has been all along is a great adventure, and we hope it will continue to be.
Dave’s response to Joe (no last name) is: Gee, thanks Joe, I never thought of that. Truth is I’d be happy to do anything that doesn’t require me to give up my time on the sofa with my bags of chips and my afternoon soaps.
I am going to miss that big loaf of bread my wife buys for us . It makes a mean toasted sub , it’s great with cold butter and cut into thin slices , it makes awesome french toast . I gotta go , I made myself hungry . I call dibbs on any loaves you have left .
JT – The bread is baked by The Salida Bread Company (me), we are not fighting the issues Dave and Kerry have here and are trying to work out a continued future for The Salida Bread Company. The closing of Ploughboy not only necessitates us finding a new retail outlet, it also means we need to secure a bakery location. We love making bread for the community here and aim to continue. Watch our Facebook page for news on our future as it develops.
We think Salida Bread Company is great and have been honored to be a part of their launch. As we’ve told them, even after Ploughboy, Inc. closes, the kitchen will still be available to them so they’ll have a place to bake for the forseeable future. Love that bread!
We are sorry to hear that you will be closing the store. Good luck in your new ventures. In other economic times, this may have been successful. Salida is unique in it’s own way. It is home for my husband and I – we enjoy the joys of small town living. We are fortunate to be able to do business without any problems. Some of your points will be heard, but a larger metropolitan area may be what you need to succeed. Thanks for the efforts.
I came here from the east coast and it took me about a year to adjust to living in a small mountain community — without malls and all the socalled conveniences a larger metropolitan area offers. The first toy i bought was a lake kayak. I’ve found ways to work around the seemingly impossible — even using ITOK for computer needs — this online service will help you install programs and all sorts of tasks and provide service 24/7 which is great because i work nights as well as weekends. (which allows for using the lake kayak during the week :) — I wouldn’t trade the Chaffee County lifestyle for anything! Here 10+ years and loving every day. When there’s a will, there is always a way.
I’m truly saddened to learn about Ploughboy closing. I too tried to make the extra effort to patronize the business in an effort to keep them around!
I’ve been a Salida resident for nearly 13 years. I’ve owned several businesses including a restaurant so I certainly understand Kerry and Dave’s struggle. Although I agree that working with the City was a comedy of errors during those years, my experience with local banking and computer companies has been much different.
I’m not trying to discredit D&K’s experience… I’m sure their frustration was real but I’d disagree that the “lack of professionalism is universally acknowledged.”
Just this weekend I needed an instant transfer of money on a Saturday. The local bank’s policy was to post those transactions on Monday but since the teller knew me, she made it happen for me. I suspect a Denver teller would have adhered to the policy no matter what.
I’ve also had incredible experiences working with local computer companies, namely Daryl at Brass Tacks and Bill at Computech. On the web development and programming side, I work with Mark Wiard of Wiard Web Works and Tony and Maggie Niemann of Loose Chicken Design. I’ve worked with City-based programmers on numerous occasions and none could outshine the work I’ve seen with these two local companies. They’re talented, professional and competitively priced.
With regard to legal services, Greg Powell and Stacy Murphy have given me legal advice and rock-solid contracts that have protected my interests on numerous occasions. Ditto for my accountant (Ayn Hanselmann, a former local who still services my account) and bookkeeper Katie Coit– talk about bend-over-backwards service?! They don’t come any better, (or nicer) than Katie.
I could make a long list of anecdotes about professional service providers that exceeded my expectations. AND, the fact that most of those people are also friends and neighbors is what makes living in Salida worth it (even when those people are “off” on a powder day).
I wish I would have heard of D&K’s troubles earlier on…. maybe the local network could have steered them towards Salida’s star professionals sooner, and they would have had a different outcome… Best of luck to them.
Hey Steve , You can use my kitchen anytime . Keep up the great work .
My hat is off to all who start a business , especially in this day and age . The retail / food / restaurant business seems like it has LOTS of competition . In the last five years I have seen quite a few businesses open and then close and I really feel for those that have to close up . I can’t imagine the strain that is caused to the business owners as they have to come to the decision that it is time to close the doors . If I was filthy rich I would go out of my way to support every business that I could . I don’t know about everyone else but the past three years have really caused us to seriously strategize about how we spend our money . And honestly , there is only so much money in the budget to go out to eat and try to support our favorite eateries . GOOD LUCK to all of Salida’s business owners .
Kerry and David, I have so much respect for your ability to make anything work. Ploughboy is an intelligent new business that I hoped to be Salida’s future. I remember when you told me, as you looked around the state, that other parts of the state (Durango, in particular) suggested Salida for your business concepts. I was impressed with the open ended view of that concept and it made me hopeful that Salida is on to something in more ways than one or two. With your experience and understanding of so many facets of cities and how they work, and your transformation of city neighborhoods, etc. applied to Salida, along with being ready to change with what Salida wanted, was unique, creative. As with all new ideas, the energy in Ploughboy was electric, fun always. I stopped in to buy something local and came away charged. thanks. We will miss you and all that could have been. Louise
Obviously there is more to the story than is written but I would like to respond to a few of the issues raised. For some reason after reading the original post I fell like the community is being blamed. In my opinion that is not possible. I am a business person here in Salida and have been for 14 years and elsewhere many years before that. I have lived in 13 states, experienced up economies, down economies, booms and busts, hard employee environments and easy ones. I have learned a few things.
First of all every community feels like they are unique. But if all communities are unique then by the definition non are.
Secondly, in my opinion a business must be customer centered. Over my years in Salida and other “unique” communities I have run into numerous businesses and individuals that lack the commitment that you describe. They exist in every locale and zip code. The choice is always the same: find the ones that work and share your priorities. They exist. In all resort or “unique” communities you will find businesses large and small that design their business around their life style. In my opinion this is fundamentally flawed. In my experience they succeed rarely. Don’t expect your customers to have a higher level of commitment than owners do. It seems a common sense statement but like many such statements after reflection are utterly obvious.
Being a professional in the Hospitality Industry and one that operates 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and 365 days a year. Maybe I am simply jealous!
I have personally contemplated often the balance premise. How do I balance every day my priorities between my professional life and personal life. I used to believe that balance meant 50-50. Meaning I work to keep that ratio. It did not take long to realize the impossibility. What I have since learned is that 90-10 and 10-90 also averages out to 50-50. You focus on your business at times and then when it is appropriate you focus on your personal life. It does work!
Lastly everyday in business we have to choose what we work on. What issues deserve our priority, our limited calories, our focus. It is important to put first things first. In reading the original posting is it really possible that those issues listed are business breakers (banking, insurance, computer and the like). In my opinion they have nothing to do with a customer focus. Thus could they possibly fall into the “First things First”, or to put it another way, the highest priority? Or are they simply challenges that exist in every “unique” community and it is up to the resourcefulness of the individual to utilize the resources available to them (wherever they may be…local or global that provide the best value. It is simply our choice whether we give to much energy to issues that are low in priority, thus leaving our batteries depleted when it comes to needing energy to work on the true high priorities. I understand the frustration and temptation but it is obvious the consequences of such choices.
One other lastly… I have learned that I go to the bathroom to find the cause of my woes and the source of my solutions… the mirror.
Don Jackson
Innkeeper, Salida Super 8
Partner- Monarch Mountain
Dave and Kerry I’m Truly sorry to hear of the closing you have been a great asset to this community and very generous to us at the Stone Soup Cafe. Steve your generosity is well known and your help to the cafe is fantastic. I hope the best to everyone. Tom
As a past business owner in Salida, I also am saddened that another good idea is not going to survive in Salida. The thoughts I had put on paper to post in response to Kerry and Dave’s announcement that they are closing were pretty much stated by Don Jackson.
I agree that one must work within the parameters one has and not have unrealistic expectations. It is up to the individual to expand those parameters to meet the needs and to give the effort enough time to bear fruit.
I found a certain relaxed business conduct in Salida that was difficult for me to get used to, but I had to learn to work within that parameter or continually feel frustration. I always tried first to support local providers, but if it didn’t meet my business needs, I went out of the area. I was not there to introduce my ways, but rather to adapt to my new environment.
I gave my extra time back to the community by serving on 2 boards in the 8 years I lived there and organizing what I hope will become a Signature Event for Chaffee County – and I made many life long friends.
Best wishes to both of you. I hope you reconsider.
If you’d like to review the Nelson’s letter to the City of Salida, it can be seen here: http://salidacitizen.com/2011/02/ploughboy-inc-letter-to-the-city-of-salida/
To counter Nathan Ward’s assertion, I think there’s a big difference between whining and legitimate complaint. I’ve been here 20 years, built houses, helped with businesses and I’ve encountered things worse than what is driving Ploughboy away. I have had the same things happen in Denver when I lived there too.
When it comes to civil servants (and I must confess, inspectors and permit issuers tend to be the worst) it often comes down to personal prejudices such as those mentioned by David’s interaction with the ironically named Mr.Paradise in her letter. I’ve seen field inspectors change their attitude towards me based on one comment or inquiry. I’ve negotiated the walk of eggshells many times with some guy who for all I know is cranky because he was turned down for a date. i’ve had officials at a desk make a decision while staring at the ceiling (indicating they are mulling it over) that has cost me tens of thousands of dollars. Woe to he who asks for leniency or proof of written code. You will be blacklisted. These officials should be fired on the spot.
It’s funny, the city busts it’s ass to get people to open businesses (and thus expand the tax base) yet people within their own offices are working against them. I am drawing blood as I bite my lip so that I won’t mention names and offenders because I am currently awaiting approval on a building permit!
We have not heard from our city leadership and employees responsible for handling the requests and approvals from Dave and Kerry in order to accomplish what they needed to run a business. From Kerry’s letter to the city, it sounds as if our city has been a substantial impediment to facilitating timely progress for a new business and supporting entrepreneurs that are working hard to improve out town. Tell us this is not true – tell us who from the city rolled up their sleeves to help these guys? Let’s hear the city’s side of this – Community development director? Board of appeals members? City council members? The mayor?
These are the United States. We long ago abandoned the concept that government was a necessary evil that existed only to protect our life, liberty, and property.
Instead, we’ve created an enormous system whereby millions of petty bureaucrats feed as parasites off the populace by interfering with, if not eliminating, our rights to life, liberty, and property.
It’s all in the name of safety, of course, so no “reasonable” person can object.
As for the private sector in Salida, welcome to small town life. I can’t fathom that any of the inconveniences you outline (many of which I too have encountered but shrugged off) were so insurmountable that they ended your business. Unlike our ever-expanding government, there are always alternatives.
Not to pick nits, but after reading Kerry’s letter to the City of Salida, I feel I should point out that Mr. Paradise works for Chaffee County, not the City of Salida. The county and city do however have somewhat different code requirements.
As a Builder, I have indeed had many a disagreement with our county building officials, both past and present. I will admit that the present situation is better than it has been in the past. However, dealing with the folks at the Building Department is simply part of the process. Just as we, as Builders or individuals, feel that we are obviously right in any given situation, those in the Building Department invariably feel the same way. Contrary to some opinions, they do not decide on the code. They enforce it, as written. Occasionally, there will be local amendments made to existing codes. These changes are posted and open to public comment. (Wow, I can’t believe I’m defending the Building Department!)
After one particular instance involving code interpretation, when I felt that I had been burdened with my ‘the last straw’, I deided to take action. I applied for a position on the Board of Adjustment. I may not have changed the world, but I had some input and I tried to act in a fair and responsible way, within my means. I was not present on the Board when the hearing referenced in Kerry’s letter took place. But I will say that as members, we certainly didn’t have free reign to do as we pleased. Our function was mainly to interpret areas of the Code, when an individual disagreed with the Department’s interpretation.
Just like in most areas of life, it comes down to getting things done by being civil and trying to work within the confines of the system. One can hate the system, but that doesn’t make it change.
As Ghandi said, “You must be the change you want to see in the world”. Imagine all the minds that were changed by Ghandi. Then think about how many minds have changed because someone made themselves to be a martyr. Crying foul and choosing to give up is not nearly as effective as becoming involved to facilitate change. If something is good enough, be it one’s business, lifestyle or community, it’s worth fighting for. If it’s not worth fighting for, then it’s likely time to move on.
I’m sad to see the Ploughboy quitting its operation. But I think it’s unfair to blame the people of Salida for its demise. And yes, all of the people cited in this diatribe are citzens of Salida, or the surrounding community.
Joe, well stated. Whining, complaining and quitting will get you nowhere. I really liked and was excited about Ploughboy, so I’m sad to see it go. I just wish the owners would have fought a little harder. All of their problems were just hurdles that you have to buck up and clear if you care about the race.
Is there any truth to the statement ” You can’t fight City Hall ” ? It’s tough when you get conflicting answers on the same question . The only thing you can do is grin and bear it , do your homework on the issue , stay civil and hope for the best . It seems that eventually most problems get worked out and then it’s time to move on to the next challenge and you will forget about the previous one . Good Luck .
As a business owner here in Salida and Denver, I can assure you that the red tape and lack of service is not only applicable to Salida. We spent 3 years renovating a complex in Denver and we were put through the wringer by the building department. They were terrible at customer service and the inspectors were very inconsistent. We even had to fight with the Historic District over minor exterior improvements.
If that is the sole reason for Ploughboy to close the doors, then I afraid the owners will be searching for a long time for the “perfect environment” in which to start another business. It doesn’t exist anymore than a “stress-free” life does. I certainly agree with the earlier comments, that there are ways to make it work. They do require extra energy, but as it was stated earlier – it’s worth it to us who feel strongly about where we want to spend our lives.
Hopefully, Ploughboy has raised the bar for future businesses to look toward, as I feel it is the way to a sustainable future.
From an elected officials point of view.
I am a city council member from ward 3. I have not been approached by Dave and Kerry about their city struggles. I have not seen them at a council meeting for at least a year or two, and they were not there to talk about their current troubles.( I think that I have missed 2 council meetings in the past year though) I was not aware of their city problems until a few weeks ago. That said, at the next city council meeting we are adding a text edit to the code to eliminate their fire code/sprinkler issue. If there are other problems, I wish they had come to a meeting to let the council know about it. The city staff and the county building department can only enforce the code that the city council adopts. Their specific issue with the fire code section is not open to the interpretation that they would like, so we are modifying that section of the code to reflect the 2000 IBC not the current code. However, I am not sure that I fully understand the challenges they speak of.
When a city staff member makes a mistake about anything, I really don’t see a difference from that to the mistakes that you and I find in the private sector all the time. We go out and do our homework and call it to the attention of the business that we have an issue with. We expect that upon recognition of that error a change will be made. It took some time and headache, but the code issue for Dave and Kerry is being resolved. Other issues I am not sure about.
I really don’t want them to leave either. I personally feel that their model is fabulous. I think it will inspire others to do their own thing, right here in Salida. I am not trying to diminish the struggles that they had with the “system” here, but is that really what is forcing them to leave? I hope someone else takes over and continues the Ploughboy. Anyone up for the challenge? It appears you will be well received by this fabulous community.
One last thing, if any of you see something that needs attention of the city council, please come to a meeting and talk to us. We’d love to have you.
Sincere regards to Dave and Kerry and all the residents of Salida,
Scott Damman
Now that’s the type of response I’d expect from our town! Thank you Scott Damman!
Dave and Kerry,
I think it took a lot of guts and courage to express to the community what it took for Ploughboy to do business in Salida. The information that you offered about your experience is valuable. It’s easy to say..well, why didn’t you get more involved in the system? I understand, you’re trying to run a new small business. You’re providing sales tax revenue, jobs and a service to your community. Your time and energy is already taken up by just trying to make it work.
I for one appreciate the effort and incredible energy you put into that space.
Emile’ J. Dubia
Free the Monkey Consignment
Thanks to everyone for a vigorous debate. I’m glad to hear of and know the wide variety of viewpoints out there. I wouldn’t have expected everyone to have my string of difficulties, and I’m certainly glad not everyone has. I do find it interesting that most people are happy to jump on the bandwagon of criticizing the government, but are find ways to excuse the private sector. (Note how few comments have said that things here work really well. Most folks just say we should all learn to deal with it.)
On the governmental front, I really appreciate Councilman Damman’s invitation to bring problems to City Council. Great to know City government wants to do something about problems its aware of. In our instance, we chose to follow the route laid out in the code, rather than going around and to City Council. Perhaps that was our mistake. The fact of the matter is, however, at least two elected officials were aware of our difficulties, even though we didn’t make a formal presentation at a Council meeting, and both let us know (one directly one second hand) they thought it wrong and that something should be done about it. But, nothing was done about it from the City side. From our side, we thought we were doing something about it, by following the specific avenue laid out for us by code and taking the matter to the appeals board. (It shouldn’t go unsaid, here, that the City well knows of problems experienced by many people with the building department. It has admitted that it needs to do something about it. It just hasn’t. And, I wouldn’t want other citizens out there to think that if government doesn’t fix long standing problems that it’s aware of, the blame lies with the citizen.)
Interestingly, we have come to believe that the City really did want to help us, it just didn’t do so in a way that was actually of help. The question of whether we were required to put in a sprinkler system was a matter of parsing the International Building Code. I have come to learn that the building department made three attempts to have an official code interpretation body opine on this. I’ll fully admit now that I’m reading between the lines and could be all wrong on this, but my take away from THREE attempts, was that that the building deparment really couldn’t believe the code would require something so onerous (and practically, as it turns out, nearly impossible). Otherwise, why would they seek advice on this three times?
Now, we weren’t told of two of these three attempts and the official “opinions” they generated until after we had been that we should withdraw our appeal, and therein lies some of the problem. If we had been let in the loop, it’s likely we could have shortcircuited this whole debacle. As a recovering attorney whose specialty was analysis and enforcement of regulations not so dissimilar in nature to this one, I had analyzed the code and been come to the conclusion that under the code as it stands we were not required to install sprinklers. City staff looked at the three “opinions” from the code interpretation official, and decided that our position (that sprinklers aren’t required) MUST be wrong. Not to get into too much detail, but two of the opinions are, on their face, just off point. The third one, appears to be on point, until you realize that the official opining on whether a sprinkler would be necessary in our residential space addressed the question of residential spaces, generally, under the IBC. Residential spaces, generally, under the IBC do require sprinklers (these are things like hospitals, boarding homes, hotels and the like). But, the official never got to the specific question we had: whether a single family residence in it’s own building (which, by definition under the IBC is what we created when we installed a 3 hour wall b/t market and residence) requires a sprinkler. And, while I’ll admit this isn’t my substantive area of expertise, my best analysis is that it does not. What I think likely happened, is that the building official never posed that specific question to the opinion maker, and therefore couldn’t get back an answer that was on point.
TMI, I know. The point is nobody at the City properly vetted these opinions to see if they really did speak to our point (my humble opinion), nor did they share them with me so that I could vet them. They came to their own conclusion, without hearing from us, that our position must be wrong. Based on this, they again tried to help. Apparently the City believed that sprinklers just weren’t warranted in a variety of situations and so they decided this issue could be addressed not just for us, but others who were sure to come down the pike, by changing the code. That sounds sensible. Government to the rescue – they’re going to help. (Okay, that’s probably a bit unfair, we really, really do appreciate that several people inside City government were trying to be fair and helpful.) But once again, nobody brought us into the loop to ask if this might actually be of help. For us, it just created a whole host of problems.
I’d already started to put together an appeal at the time the building official came to us and told us that the best way to deal with this was to appeal. The City told us what our window of dates would be for the appeal. The building official said he’d come to the appeal and testify that we don’t need sprinklers, I was pretty darn sure the law didn’t require them anyway and I’d put together all the arguments and factual proofs. So, we now knew we had process to go through, but a clear path to the end. We scheduled our lives around that: hiring people to run the market for several weeks so that we could turn our attention to building out our residence (which is already roughed and probably needs ~ 30 days work to complete), we scheduled things related to our other businsess on the east coast. It took a fair amount of planning and coordinating of various schedules across the country. The City’s decision to abort our appeal and instead handle this legislatively, however, meant weeks if not months of delay. For us that meant not only changing our lives, it meant changing the lives of the folks who’d cleared their schedules to run the market for us in February and March, changing the lives of the folks who we’d planned to work with for a few weeks on the east coast, it meant we’d be homeless again since we’d given notice at the apartment we were renting, etc.
Legislative approach – not a bad idea at all. An attempt to help our situation (which I believe needed no help but to let the regular, code-specified process go forward), not so much. — But, nobody knew that by “helping” they were screwing us all up again, because nobody bothered to ask.
I honestly believe we that in many ways this town does have “good government” in the sense of people trying to do the right thing. As with anywhere, there are flaws in the process that often create real problems. Much of those flaws, in my opinion, could be lessened with something as simple as better communication. In this I fully admit I’m at least as much to blame as anyone. As it turns out, this came down to a question of legal analysis of the code. I was the one person involved who was uniquely qualified to take that on. I, however, was too busy working on the trials associated with my husband’s retail market (not within my expertise) and let others carry the ball for me. Big mistake — and my apologies to the City on that part.
The question is: what happens to the next person, who might be smart enough to to get more personally involved than I did, but who will not be uniquely qualified to sort out such messes?
Thomas Jefferson summed it up perfectly in his post yesterday.
Inconvenient internet banking, cumbersome fire codes, and a crazy french guy trying to hang a tarp over the river…I am guessing there are about a billion people in the Middle East right now that wish they had our problems.
I understand how trying it must be to go through this. I remember watching you two fix up what had been a fairly rundown looking shell. The architecture, the style and the concept seemed to come together so nicely in the end.
The part I don’t understand is, now that you’ve sounded the alarm it appears you’d have everyone short of the Navy coming to your rescue to make things right. It reminds me of unfortunate experience of a few squirrels that I have seen run more than halfway across the road- only to run more than halfway back to the other side, thereby meeting the doom (car) that they were attempting to avoid in the first place. Surely pulling up the tent stakes and starting all over in another location will be more expensive. It will also likely be less desireable all around, since Salida’s hard to beat…
Here is what I get from reading the initial post to the Citizen, the letter the City of Salida received, and the letters included in the Mountain Mail today. What follows is my opinion as a private citizen only.
So if I might paraphrase the position of the owners of the Ploughboy:
“Despite numerous obstacles, including inept City and County officials, building codes, the banking industry, insurance industry, and the computer services industry, we’ve made our business successful. And now we are going to shut it down.”
Did I miss something? Of course there must be more to the story here.
Now let me go to public servant mode.
The full Council learned of the struggles related to the Ploughboy for the first time on Tuesday 2/15 at the morning planning meeting (you can watch a recording of this on public access I believe). We were briefed on the issues related to the conflict between the IRC and IBC, firewalls and sprinklers. In our discussion it appeared to me to be unanimous among council members that the requirement of sprinklers in that residential space (and spaces like it) was onerous, especially if the chief building official concurred. Of course that decision has to be made at a regular council meeting and was placed on the 3/1 agenda. So yes, you had to blaze some trail, but this is not stopping your enterprise. And although the Building Department is a County entity, from your descriptions it sounds like Bill Paradise made reasonable efforts to accommodate your request.
I will second Scott Damman’s suggestion that if you have an issue that is caused by something odd about City Codes or policies, come talk to us. You can do that with each council member privately, or better yet, come to either the 8:30am planning meeting or 6pm regular council meetings on the 1st and 3rd Tuesdays of each month. Those are televised so that all of Salida (or at least the 7 people watching) can hear.
You do have a fantastic business. I hope you can find a way to stay.
Things arise and things dissolve forever and ever. That’s just the way it is. Shall we just see it for what it is without calling it names and without hurling rocks. Shall we lighten up. A leaving Ploughboy doesn’t change the sacred world that we share. Good-Bye David and Kerry. May your road be open.
I lived in the former Soviet Union in 1991 and 1992 exporting construction steel to Pacific Rim countries. It took 1 ½ years to complete my first successful transaction. Those first 18 months represent the steepest learning curve I’d ever climbed. I pray I never see another like it and thus far I haven’t. The lessons I learned were extremely valuable but the most valuable was this: Nothing worth doing is easy; if you want something bad enough you must be willing to do whatever it takes to be successful (within the realm of honesty and integrity).
After my initial success I was able to reproduce it with much less effort. Sadly, the Russian mafia quickly got wind of my progress and I quickly found out that their business model was much more effective than mine. In the interest of living to tell this story I came home and brought the valuable lessons with me (and not much else).
Dixie and I left very good paying jobs on the front range to move here over 10 years ago. It was a big risk and a huge cut in pay. We felt that God had a hand in our decision to come and we trusted that. We both have very little ‘give up’ in us and, despite a very difficult economy and hard times, we’ve worked hard to ‘make it’ in Salida. We’ve learned what it takes to make business happen, how to keep it alive, that customer service, integrity and trust are more important than anything. These are values that drew us to Salida in the first place.
I’m sorry it didn’t work out for the Ploughboy. We all have the same resources available when it comes to this market and the rules to play by. Perhaps one of two courses would be adviseable in the next venture: research your resources better and/or give it more time to take hold. Less than two years in the business is still infancy by any standard.
Walt Harder.
Salida has always been a small town. Most all of the residents of the past lived here year ’round. Now, there are fewer and fewer year ’round residents. Fewer and fewer of us have been given the job of keeping Salida afloat. Have you looked at your property tax bills that are due at the end of the month?
Our press releases and national media give outsiders the impression that we are a thriving little city. Many people have moved here thinking they could, if not get rich, at least make a comfortable living. And many of the tough ones do.
A few years ago folks were paying outrageous prices for housing and commercial properties. The city receives the same amount of property taxes whether the owners live here full time or not. Local businesses do not receive the same financial support from absentee owners as they do from people who live here year around. In the 13 years I have lived in Salida, I have seen many businesses open in one part of the year and be gone within that same year. When I hear people say that they are planning on moving to Salida, I recommend to them that they come here and live for at least a year before they make any huge plans on taking on a large entrepreneurial project. Get to know the town. Get to know what services are here and how they operate.
There really is a limited market here. Much of that market works two and three jobs just to live and play in this lovely part of the earth.
I was shocked to hear of Dave and Kerry’s decision to close. It seemed to me that they had gotten through all the rough parts of opening a business such as theirs. It appeared to me that their lovely ship had started to sail. Now they’re closing? Hmmmmmm. Sad.
Why not sell? I hope you offer Ploughboy for sale. Ploughboy + Colorado Local Market = a potentially great business!
My family and I are truly saddened by the pending closure of Ploughboy. It takes a lot of courage(and Money) to open up a business in todays environment. Its overall disappointing to hear that this business wasn’t treated in a kind and profesional manner by some of the city staff. The city has been saying for quite some time that they are friendly towards new business and would like specific examples of the accusations that they are anti business. I would cite this as one example. There is never a good excuse for the city not working with respectable business entities in the spirit of “how can we help you “? This area does not have the luxury of discouraging business to locate here. These types of stories only discourage other would be busineses from looking at Salida and finding a city where the business climate is a bit friendlier to capital investment. Thanks to Scott Damon for a professional response on behalf of the city.
Given the depth, breadth and intensity of the conversation around this ‘business issue’ it is clear that continued dialog needs to and will occur. What does Salida want to be when it ‘grows up’? We’ve built a hospital, renovated our City offices, we are building a new high school, new waste water treatment plant and hopefully adding Forest Service facilities, etc. All of these factors will create and push change. How we behave and create the best possible outcomes starts with the ‘mirrior’ and moves to responsible, respectful dialog. Creating and building a business is hard work, very rewarding and beneficial to the owner/employees and Community. I look forward to being an active, positive force in making myself better and this community better.
I am hiding my name for fear of any retribution. It is high time for a change folks. I have been hearing for years how heavy handed, capricious and adversarial our bldg. dept is. It is costing us, It cost me an added 12% on a simple building project that was already over-engineered, it is driving away businesses and it is just plain stupid for a small office of petty bureaucrats to be ham-stringing our town. I love this town and I am here to stay but it really hurts to see good people and good businesses driven out by this unfriendly business climate.
Dave, thank you for your inspiration and for your leadership in the community.
A quick note, please go here.
“The city has been saying for quite some time that they are friendly towards new business and would like specific examples of the accusations that they are anti business. I would cite this as one example.”
I am assuming that this is the quote you were refering to:
“In addition, dealing with the City’s public works and building departments has been nothing short of a misguided comedy of errors, misrepresentations of code and arbitrary enforcement of such.”
Sorry, this doesn’t seem very specific to me.
Of course, people are going to “belly-ache” about things that make their work more difficult or add costs to operating a business. I’m sure Cristo is a bit frustrated with the BLM. Exxon is probably a little sick of the EPA. Larry Flynt is fed up with the FCC. The Mexican Drug gangs are sick of both the DEA and the Border Patrol. However, these things are in place to keep a balance between one person’s drive to make a little money and the need to make sure that the consumer is protected. One of my favorite restraunts in Mexico is the “Plywood Palace”. Of the dozens of times I’ve eaten there, I’ve only gotten sick twice. One of my favorite restraunts in Salida is Amicas. Of the hundreds of times I’ve eaten there, I’ve never gotten sick. See what I am saying?
My concern is if what the owners of Ploughboy have encountered is more of a symptom and than a special situation. One has to wonder how many other people/families who have bought buildings for renovation to live in and or to run their businesses from who had found they were swimming up stream? I would venture to say this was not an isolated incident and many probably packed up and left town and did not speak up over their predicament.
Often the bureaucrats loose site of the” time is money”situation business/property owners are faced with when trying to get their operations functioning. It makes one wonder if there should be a mediation/advocate group to help facilitate a smoother process for those who have decided to be a member of our community in setting up shop.
I have often heard we need to be bringing in new business, yet, when it is staring us in the face……………. those entrepreneur shops incrementally add up to make us the community that makes us unique.
We cannot afford to let these situations happen and go unheaded. Our community cannot survive if we don’t step up and help nurture the businesses that are here, now. Those businesses are our future. Please take note.
M. Hallett